sensorimotor observations of collective movement, Heims Ingalls experiment

Hi Todd,

Thanks.  Can we talk with Pavan, and then Steve Heims?

Yes I’d be very interested in such collective movement experiments.  But then it is urgent that we really prep our own measurement methods and team (Garrett?, ___ ? assisted by Julian).

As you know, I would want to measure correlations not (only) in the brain but across much more of the event.   
It is far more direct (scientifically rigorous) to measure as much of the global aspects of collective movement than to zero in on only one part of the body and in fact a part whose functions are extremely indirectly related to corporal kinetics, and in ways that are quite ill understood . 

That’s why I’ve asked Julian and our students to build out the rhythm kit to use all modalities of sensing intervallic rhythm.

in particular: 

and as an aside:

Can we talk with Pavan, and then with Steve?

Xin Wei

On Dec 4, 2015, at 12:41 PM, Todd Ingalls <> wrote:

could this be tied to rhythm. I think we are both skeptical of brain imaging but could still be interesting. 

todd from my phone

Begin forwarded message:

From: Stephen Helms Tillery <>
Date: December 4, 2015 at 12:26:56 PM MST
To: Todd Ingalls <>
Subject: Back to music and brain

Hey Todd,

Hope you’re good.

I have been working and thinking about a couple of issues a lot lately in group neuroscience .. the two key topics are joint action and entrainment.   Joint action is just multiple actors working together to accomplish some task … like two people carrying a table together, or a couple of soccer players moving the ball down the field.   These are interesting problems because they require the actors to have some sense of what their partners are trying to accomplish and how they are going about that.   Entrainment is an entirely hypothesized process in which two brains come into “synchrony” in order to communicate .. this is thought to be important in language, but obviously is also important in music performance.

Entrainment, however, is pretty loosely defined at the moment … we have an idea for getting at entrainment using musicians.    The notion is to get an ensemble together, a good ensemble … and record simultaneous EEGs from the players as they work a piece.

To some extent this has been done before:   with saxophones (ugh!)   The focus of that paper was on EEG markers of empathy (even more ugh), and the usual expected changes in EEG associated with listening to and motor outputs for music.

What I’d like to do is do real analysis across multiple brains during performance, and see if we can see electrical signs of entrainment as they are working.   In a dream world, as the ensemble locks into “togetherness” … the brains will entrain.   Or vice versa.  

Anyway, to go after this we will need to synch up multiple EEGs, and more importantly, find a good ensemble that might be up for this.    

I thought of AME, and wondered if there would be somebody there interested in devoting a little bit of time and nominal resources to chasing this down.

In any case, have good holidays,